18:31:42 table. 18:31:44 Okay, so we have transcript working. 18:31:47 Welcome back everyone. 18:31:58 Oh here everybody comes. So who would like to just check in. Feeling need How are you, as we get going. The second week of August. 18:32:03 Just while we're waiting for some people to apply, I'd love to just hear from one or two of you need and what's up hi Rachel. Hi, so I'm feeling relieved and grateful. 18:32:17 I started the day really rough ahead, a really unsettling dream that sort of hung over me all morning and then I had an empathy session with a friend. 18:32:36 And I'm really really grateful to my friend and how it sort of lifted. This just curtain of poop that was hanging on me. So, okay, celebrating that I no longer and wearing a poop rope. 18:32:46 Yay. 18:32:48 Some, some healing power of empathy happening in your life. 18:32:53 Glad you're here. Thank you. 18:32:55 One more person. 18:33:15 like you all think for a moment to would like to check in. 18:33:21 Yes, Carolyn. 18:33:24 Hi there. Well, I just I'm feeling like navigating this path of power with versus power over is really hard. 18:33:37 And it really mucks with her relationships in some ways. 18:33:44 And I had like this epic fail in NBC where I was snarky sarcastic rude. 18:33:53 Basically undoing any last six months of trying to patiently and gently share ways of sharing feelings and needs so who I, you know, I don't know, I'm feeling, it's hard. 18:34:09 And, yeah, stressful I guess I don't know, that's not stressful isn't a feeling is it feeling anxious and unsettled. 18:34:19 Okay. 18:34:20 Anxious an unsettled and having a need for having a need for 18:34:28 me some validation, which, if you were to ask me for what I would sit there and go. 18:34:37 Okay, so let's imagine that I am giving you loads and loads of validation and you're getting just lots of validation in this moment. What need of yours is being met by all of that validation. 18:34:50 I think I need for feeling that overall. 18:34:53 I'm on the right. I'm on the right road even though, like, you know you have these epic screw ups that overall, I do want to think that I'm on to a better way. 18:35:11 But overall, I do want to think that I'm on to a better way. So is there anything in there about self acceptance or self trust. 18:35:17 Most definitely. 18:35:20 Yeah, self trust that even though I have this old tape that saying, Oh my God, you're so extreme Carolyn and you are to this and to that and you know why can't you just be a normal 18:35:36 like normal. 18:35:37 So, like a real need for belonging. 18:35:41 A real My gosh, with other people so just before this meeting I did send an email to to younger mother neighbor ladies asking, saying I'm so disconnected from mothers of young children and what are you doing with this emergence of the covered. 18:35:58 I have my grandbabies coming and I get extreme and I'm in my The only one 18:36:08 I love it. 18:36:10 That's it. Thank you for sharing. 18:36:12 Well welcome everyone. Welcome back to Monday evenings, our topic for August is empathy for others. 18:36:21 And I think everybody will have received the email in which we're providing a little bit more structure to the membership these days so week one is teaching week to this week we're going to work on demonstrations and scripting. 18:36:37 In the large group week three will be heavily practice. And I will be popping in and out of small groups observing your practice and being quite actively involved, and you can always let me on the third week how much coaching you do and don't want I don't 18:36:55 I don't want to shame or correct people who are just needing to play and trial and error, and I want to be available to those of you who really would like some of that not the shaming piece so much. 18:37:08 But the more directive feedback on what to say or how to say it, so I always going to be available during the third week for that and then our fourth week will always be wrap up. 18:37:17 And then on the month that we have extra weeks we'll have an integration on your own sort of a timing. So, Just as a reminder, we're going to be working well with that structure. 18:37:28 Part of the reason for that is that you know we just didn't I spent hours poring over all of the amazing feedback that came in through the membership survey that we send out so thank you for sending that. 18:37:39 And there's such an even mix of people who wants to show up for teaching and lecture and really want to just sort of taken information and people who are longing for practice that our hope is, of course, that you come every week and kind of get the fully 18:37:53 rounded experience of all the different things but also that you can sort of self SELECT INTO THE weeks, and the topics and the you know if you really liked the teaching part you should always just come the first week for sure. 18:38:08 But if you feel like I don't really get a lot out of the teaching and the more cognitive I just want to be there for the practice you should always come to the third week right so it gives you also a little bit more of a way to sort out what you're up 18:38:19 for or not up for. 18:38:21 So we'll see how that goes. As always I love getting feedback from all of you I love it when people send me emails and I just want to remind you if I'm not replying to emails, it is not personal. 18:38:31 It is just overwhelmed. Okay, so I am reading them I am taking everything in. 18:38:36 I just especially for the last 10 days I have been really offline, so. 18:38:43 Okay, so what we're going to do this evening. I'm going to put you into some breakout sessions in a moment to just do a little bit of a check in, but here's what I want you to do first Can you grab your journals and your pens and pencils. 18:38:56 And if you don't have your journals just have a piece of paper and you have a crayon that's fine. 18:39:00 But I'm going to ask you to make a list. 18:39:03 So I'm going to give you a list to make as we get going. 18:39:10 And I'd like you to list out 18:39:15 all of the ways that you do not like to be treated. 18:39:21 Make a list of all of the ways that you do not like to be treated, what people do to you. 18:39:31 Just a quick bullet point. 18:39:35 List of bullet points. 18:39:55 Does everybody have a few. 18:39:58 Okay. 18:40:00 Now, next to how I don't like to be treated. 18:40:07 Well actually, before I give you this. Can somebody give me an example of what they've written could somebody could a few of you just let me know what you have what what are the ways put them in the chat with cinema club clean yes what how do you not 18:40:24 to be ignored. I know like. Great. I do not like to be ignored. That's a beautiful one what else. Who else has one, you can put in the chat will say it out loud. 18:40:36 Yes, go ahead. Karen. 18:40:38 I'm being told what to do by my older sister. Great. okay being told us to do by my oldest sister lovely. 18:40:47 Yep, given less attention or care than someone else. Okay, beautiful, these are exactly what I want. 18:40:52 Now next to each one of these. 18:40:55 Pick one. 18:40:57 Or if you have time to do more than one you can but pick one, one that is particularly up for you. 18:41:02 And I'd like you to next to it right out a neutral observation. So for example, talk to in a condescending way, the observation that I want you to put is when my next door neighbor said, let me show you how to mow your lawn properly. 18:41:24 Okay, so I want you to next to each one come up with the micro moment the neutral observation, which means what somebody would say what they said or what they didn't say or what they did or what they didn't do. 18:41:39 So, the how I don't like to be treated is my interpretation of what that is that is condescending, and the neutral observation is what I would see in a camera, what they actually said or didn't say or what they actually did or didn't do I just want to 18:41:51 make sure you have both of those for at least one per person. 18:41:57 Figured out being ignored would be something like when I walked into the room and I said hello. 18:42:04 You didn't say anything. And you didn't look at me. 18:42:08 That's what I'm calling being ignored so I want you to get your micro moment for the how I don't like to be treated part. 18:42:35 Anybody is struggling with this pot, let me know and I will help you. 18:42:44 So one you've made a list of the ways you don't like to be treated. 18:42:49 And the second part is for each of those ways you don't like to be treated you're coming up with an example of how that shows up for you. 18:43:01 What might be actually happening, or what has actually happened. Right. 18:43:10 What does this one say when men, assume I don't know something because I am a woman REM older ok so again. 18:43:16 Lovely Kathy, write out your exact, what is happening neutral observation. 18:43:34 Is anyone struggling with this. Does anybody want to check anything out or is this pretty straightforward and you're all on it. 18:43:43 I'd like to ask a question. Yes. 18:43:53 So, what I thought of was that, um, I don't like to be condescended to or spoken to in a condescending way. Yes. Um, and so as I think about the example, and come up with something neutral. 18:44:03 I don't feel like it's neutral so I when you explain the advertisement. To me, you spoke to me like a child. Okay, leave off the last piece and the very first piece is fine. 18:44:19 Remember when you were explaining the advertisement to me. 18:44:22 Uh huh. 18:44:25 neutral. 18:44:29 Now the you spoke to me like a child part, we can play with that a little bit more but just to get us going in terms of how one might open a conversation we just need the neutral observations. 18:44:40 Oh, I see. Oh, so I didn't hear that part about how to open a conversation. I didn't say it. 18:44:47 Okay, I'm saying yeah okay so now that totally changes how I do that right yes yes thinking. You're welcome. Yes, Lori. 18:44:58 Oh, the treatment is not listened to, and that neutral observation is person didn't respond. 18:45:06 Is that a neutral. Uh huh. Yeah, if that works. You might want to have a little bit more detail like when I asked blah blah blah. 18:45:16 There was silence. There was no response, or the response was nonverbal or, you know, you could get as detailed as you like, but as long as you're sort of capturing the what happened. 18:45:29 In addition to capturing, my interpretation of what happened. 18:45:35 Okay, so if I say 18:45:42 they walked out of the room. 18:45:45 Exactly. And so, the moment you see when when we when our evaluation is this is such a lovely one Laura I'm glad to bring it up because when my evaluation of wrongness is you don't respond to me. 18:46:00 That's, that's going to set us up in a very particular conversation but when I'm seeing through the lens of. 18:46:08 When I asked you how you were feeling and you walked out of the room. 18:46:12 That's the response. 18:46:15 When I asked you how you were feeling and you looked at your feet. 18:46:18 That's the response. 18:46:22 When I asked you how you were feeling and you rolled your eyes at me. 18:46:25 It's the response. So, when we can get to the, what happened, we can find more choice points than when we're in the interpretation of wrongness which is when you don't respond to me. 18:46:38 There's already subtly a you are doing this thing to me and I don't like it. 18:46:43 And we want to be aware of both is helpful or not, am I missing something or no yeah. 18:46:53 I'm going to put you in some groups. 18:46:56 You're going to check in first with how are you feeling what needs videos are up what's going on in your life, take about a minute piece, do a little bit of a check in ground yourself. 18:47:06 Say hello. Introduce yourself if you're with people you haven't chatted with do a little bit of the you know the just connecting casually, sort of a three full minute go around and then run to. 18:47:19 I'd like you to go around and share the how I don't like to be treated and a situation where that gets stimulated. 18:47:27 Okay, I don't like to be condescended to for example, when blah blah blah. I don't like to be ignored. For example, when blah blah blah. 18:47:35 I don't like to be abused, for example when blah blah blah. Okay. 18:47:40 And we're just going to begin with that. And then we're going to come back together, and then we're going to play from that. Any questions. 18:47:54 Okay, good. Let me find my breakout rooms and city away to four questions when I have work to do. 18:48:05 Let's see how many people only 22 so we'll make. If I make seven rooms that puts about three people in a room and then I will move people around depending upon where and how you are okay so I'm going to create those and I'm going to give you. 18:48:17 Where's my settings, I'm going to give you. 18:48:21 What would you like would you like 10 minutes, would you like 12 minutes. 18:48:27 Let's do 10 minutes because you're going to go back to these groups to do the second stage yes Kathy. 18:48:34 Kathy, go ahead. 18:48:35 You're muted I don't know why I can't hear you. 18:48:41 Okay. 18:48:48 Still can't hear you. are you back. Okay now can you hear me, yes. Okay, great. 18:48:52 So, um, we're going to do two rounds. The first is just the feelings and needs and connects and all three of us say something and then we do a second round, which is what was your. 18:49:06 Yeah, what was your how you don't like to be treated. 18:49:10 And. 18:49:12 And what I'd like you to help each other with is just make sure you have both an interpretation and what happened. 18:49:19 Okay. 18:49:20 Yeah, it sounds like there's a, an emerging question that is not yet said. 18:49:26 So 10 minutes for three people makes it really tight. You need to be efficient in what you say. That's all. And we're going to make it 12 minutes way with a two minute countdown, so I feel a little bit more spacious to people. 18:49:43 Okay. 18:49:44 If there's three people yeah, just. Thank you. That means you'll have 14 minutes in total. Okay. 18:49:50 Okay, great. I would love it if you would all manage our time together. Coach one another back into the structure of what we're doing and then let me know if you need any help with any of that. 19:04:25 All right. 19:04:30 Yes, people are back. Okay. I'd like to hear from two people. 19:04:36 What happened in your small groups, just a little debrief catch us up, let us end. 19:04:43 I'd like to say that I had the observation that I have a rule that other people are not allowed to have stereotypes about women, or older people. 19:04:58 Oh yeah, I have a rule. 19:04:59 Yeah, I have a rule that you're not allowed to assume anything about me or because of my age or my gender. And when they don't follow that rule and they have assumptions or stereotypes. 19:05:16 I need to get offended and sometimes I even need to police them and let them know they've broken my rule. I see, I see So it sounds like you got a little bit of insight into your part in this dynamic. 19:05:30 Yes, I did and 19:05:35 I now that you mentioned that. 19:05:39 I guess I have some rule about rules about young people is how they're supposed to act. Yes yes yes yes and it also I'm reading between the lines that tell me if I'm getting this right or not but it seems like you're feeling a little bit of delight and 19:05:54 playfulness and recognizing how these rules impact your experience of relationships. 19:06:01 Yeah, well I found it pretty silly to think that I needed the police someone else's opinions. 19:06:08 Yes yes there's something liberating about dropping that rope isn't there. 19:06:13 And something very oppressive about I'm trying to manage other people's perceptions of me. Yes, a very exhausting endeavor. Absolutely. Absolutely. thank you, Cathy, Carol you were gonna say something. 19:06:30 Yes, I, I had an observation about myself, which I have a feeling that there's something behind the door. 19:06:40 But I found it in record in recollecting an event that happened quite a while ago 19:06:50 that I was able to get to, like, compassion that I call compassion or maybe empathy. 19:06:58 Sooner than I could get to a neutral observation. 19:07:02 And I find that kind of interesting that the neutral observation is more challenging for me, then being able to be empathetic, does that make some sense what I'm saying. 19:07:14 Who else is having that experience if you can just not oh yes see there are other people who also find the neutral observation, more challenging sometimes and even cultivating the empathy does anyone who hasn't had anything to see it, have some ideas 19:07:26 about what that might be for you 19:07:30 and Kelly you can weigh in, for sure, since we're chatting, but, you know, do you have any idea why that might be. 19:07:38 What is it that makes the neutral observation, so challenging. 19:07:46 Well I would say that I'm very, very tight, my interpretations. Uh huh. We become very attached to the interpretation, and we want the interpretation to be a truth. 19:07:59 So the next question that and this is rhetorical that asked, and glory I'm coming. 19:08:05 What that is a strategy, getting attached to my interpretation is a strategy. What need Am I trying to meet. 19:08:14 So that's rhetorical, ask yourself when I get attached to my interpretations what need Am I trying to meet. Lori will be going to add. 19:08:23 I was going to add. 19:08:25 Doing this process gives more visibility to the story. 19:08:29 Yes. Does it help you sort of highlight the difference between my meaning making system and the thing that is happening out there. 19:08:37 Okay. Yes, yes. And let's be very careful that we don't vilify the story. 19:08:43 The meaning making is not bad. The interpretation is not 19:08:49 somebody just check your. Let's just mute this, there's a noise somewhere but I need sorry. That's okay. No worries. 19:08:58 So, the story is not bad, you need a meeting making system your interpretive system will tell you a lot about yourself. 19:09:07 And we also need to recognize that the meaning making system is not the same thing as the truth of the experience. It's your Subjective Truth because it's how you're interpreting it, but it's not necessarily capital T capital T the truth. 19:09:24 And that's where we can get a little bit of spaciousness. 19:09:30 So, When I can get to the neutral observation. 19:09:34 It releases, me and the other person have a cultural script of what's supposed to happen next. It just creates more room and more possibility for how that conversation might go any comments or questions on this piece. 19:09:50 Before I move on. 19:09:57 Okay, so I'm going to do a little bit of demo we're going to do a little bit of large group work and I'm going to put you back into some small groups to continue what we work on an illogical in small groups and this is what we're going to do. 19:10:08 I would love somebody to give me their, you know, what you don't how you don't like to be treated and then the thing that happens. And the thing we're going to be practicing as a group, is how to cultivate empathy for the other person. 19:10:25 Okay, so let's take for example Michelle has talked to in a condescending way So Michelle I wonder if you wouldn't mind just giving us like the neutral observation that goes with that, do you mind if I put you on the spot like that. 19:10:48 No, that's fine. Um, the neutral observation is Michael coworker emailed me an email thread. The next time I would prefer you say, blah blah blah blah blah blah to this particular customer. 19:10:53 Okay. 19:10:55 Now, our job this month. 19:10:58 As much as we really want to have Michelle's back on this and empathize with Michelle, and how it should be that might be to our job this month is to is to have empathy for the other person. 19:11:08 Okay, so here's what I want us to do for a moment. 19:11:12 When Michael sends an email that says, I would prefer that you talk to me like blah blah blah blah blah blah blah. 19:11:19 And that moment when he does that, what need. Is he trying to meet. 19:11:27 And what feelings might be alive for him as he writes that email, what do you think is happening for Michael. 19:11:34 So you can write in the chat What do you think, what do you think he's feeling and what need is he trying to meet or you can unmute and make some guesses. 19:11:50 So I'm looking in the chat might want to feel competent. Okay, so let's play with that for a second. 19:11:56 He may have a need for competence. Right. And as he's writing that email he might be feeling irritated or annoyed. Maybe he's feeling inspired. Maybe he's feeling confident. 19:12:12 And he may have a need, competence with think of more as a need and the other piece of competencies that sometimes we're using that word as a strategy. 19:12:22 And it can be a strategy to the degree that it is an evaluation that I want from another person. 19:12:29 Okay, if I want you to see me as competent, then we're in strategy land. 19:12:34 If I'm wanting the experience of having mastery over something that I'm practicing, then we're in need land. So depending upon how we use that word. 19:12:45 It can be a need or a strategy. 19:12:47 Any questions on that said helpful or not. 19:12:51 Ok. Michelle did you have something. 19:12:55 Oh, no, no. Okay, okay. 19:12:57 He's afraid that your actions reflect badly on him. Okay, so now we're interpreting. 19:13:05 We're interpreting Michael's inner being. 19:13:08 Do you see that. 19:13:11 So we, if we, let's put that into pure NBC for a moment Carol, so he's afraid so maybe he's feeling scared. 19:13:19 And if his fear is that, that Michelle's actions reflect badly on him what need would he have underneath that, let's see if we can find his need. 19:13:31 If he has some fear and anxiety in that moment, and has a need for acceptance, Lori What do you think, maybe has, has a need for consistent messaging to this client. 19:13:46 He has a need for consistency and messaging to the client. Maybe he has a need for shared awareness around something respect my Thea need again respect is a tricky one because if we mean it depends on what we mean by respect. 19:14:04 If respect is like being treated with with dignity and having a low self respect. And so I'm going to advocate for what I want because I respect myself. 19:14:15 And there are certain ways in which I'd like to be treated and I want to help you meet me there then respect is a neat. 19:14:21 If respect is you do what I say. You do it in the way that I say, and you follow my rules like the rules that Kathy was saying, then we're back in strategy labs so again that's one that we'd have to look a little bit more closely at the context of how 19:14:36 we're using that word participation. 19:14:42 Yep, maybe has a need for clarity and to be understood, maybe, yep. 19:14:47 Susan recognition of what. 19:14:50 Yes, I like recognition but say a little bit more about that he has a need for what does recognition mean to you in this moment. 19:14:59 Um, well, it means because he's, he has said it afterward that it would be more noticeable. 19:15:06 And he, he wants to be be seen to be striving to be the other thing to be seen to be striving for a certain recognition for a certain 19:15:21 talent or contribution that he's making. Okay. 19:15:28 Okay. 19:15:27 That's the best I can do. I like, I like it. And I'm just saying I skipped a few at the top I this church when quickly enough that you can catch us but he might be. 19:15:35 He might. 19:15:38 Cathy, you might be feeling scared and have the strategy to control so he might Kathy. 19:15:46 Kathy. Okay. He might be feeling scared. 19:15:49 And he might have a need for safety. 19:15:54 He might have a need for security. 19:15:58 He might have a need for co creation. 19:16:04 I was thinking he might be feeling scared and need security scared he loses job if she didn't do a good job. And so he needs his need would be for security and his strategy would be to micromanage. 19:16:21 Okay, so feedback just for you Do you want it or not. 19:16:26 Yeah. Okay. 19:16:30 Try to for a while, get really clear on just the feelings and the needs and notice the part of you that is analyzing the reason behind strategies and the complexity of what might be going on. 19:16:45 Because I think you're adding you're adding story into what you're putting in there, that he might have a strategy to control and so he's trying a strategy of micromanaging these are still evaluations of wrongness that he's doing. 19:16:59 And I think it's a stepping stone on the way to try and to understand him perhaps maybe that's the strategy for like having clarity of his intentions and you know where he might be coming from. 19:17:11 And I think you're going to get more bang for your buck for a little while. If you stay with just a feeling and just a need, with less of the analysis mixed and how does it land on you hearing that does that fit or not fair. 19:17:24 Do you like it you don't like it. 19:17:29 Yeah, that. Um, 19:17:33 I'll take a peek. Take a peek. Because when we write like I'm just using this tiny little piece when it says he has the strategy to control so he uses the strategy to micromanage to assuage fears. 19:17:45 That's a lot of emotional labor that you're doing on his behalf. That might meet your needs for understanding that is unlikely to meet his needs for empathy. 19:18:01 Is that making sense or not, if it makes sense. And I understand that it makes sense for me to to analyze because that's how I survived trying to understand what those people were thinking and why they were doing it, and that if I miss the feelings and 19:18:23 needs part with present day, people I want to be in relationship with me. 19:18:33 Yes, it. 19:18:35 I missed that opportunity for sort of their vulnerability. Yes, yes, yes, yes. Also when we put all of that analysis in that we tend to bring the collective attention, up here instead of down here. 19:18:49 And what we're wanting to practice this month just because of a very specific focus of practice this month. 19:19:02 How do we establish a hot connection with Michael would like to get, Michael. 19:19:09 Great, go for it easy. 19:19:11 Um, so I'm wondering if Michaels one ug. 19:19:17 And it just in the way that everything is presented to the client for their beauty and the words and the message. Perhaps he's wanting to send them, and for their growth and evolution. 19:19:32 And also, he's longing to create more authentic connections with the customers that may be, and that would be something to check out with him. 19:19:43 Awesome. Thank you. 19:19:44 Thanks Daisy. 19:19:46 Michelle what what are you taking listen to this so many good things I didn't have a chance to go through every single, single thing but as you're reading through the chat and you're hearing all of this, what knowing Michael and the situation, what's 19:19:57 happening in you. 19:20:00 Um, what happened for me honestly. I'm of two minds here I'm, I'm present today for the learning, and for, you know, just using it as an example, it's fine. 19:20:14 I'm, I am not ready to give this guy, any empathy, he has screwed me in more ways than you can imagine. 19:20:22 And I'm not there. Yep, that's great. So then I would, I would honor that and I would just want to really honor Don't try to give him empathy I'll play with him as an empathic being. 19:20:36 I mean, This is not a stretch that you're up for tonight so honor that wisdom, and you may want to find a different example to play with for this evening where you do feel like you want to stretch and table this one for one day I'll take this one on it's, 19:20:48 you know, but today's not that's not the hike I'm on today, I'm going to pick a more manageable bite sized where I feel like I would play bite. 19:20:57 Here's another thing that you can try not you Michelle but you in general as a group that you can try when you're having a difficult time empathizing with someone else and what they're doing, especially when there's a painful history, and especially when 19:21:10 they have power in a work context, this is high stakes and lots of ways. But one of the things that you can do is you can remember a time when you did the same thing. 19:21:21 You, you can find the time when you wrote somebody an email and told them how to talk to you or how to do something, find a timely you've done that, 19:21:35 and get into your own situation, about what was happening for you in that moment, because I can, I would place money I would place a lot of money on the assumption that you didn't go into that letter writing thinking, this is a really good chance for 19:21:54 me to practice being condescending and patronizing Let me see what happens. 19:21:59 Most likely, you are not doing that. 19:22:02 There was something else going on for you. 19:22:06 Does anybody can anybody think about a time where they've done something like this, that they would want to share about that you could yes Carol Do you want to tell us. 19:22:16 Yes, in fact, that's what we did on our small group is. So that's where I got the observation that it was easier for me to get to empathy was because I did exactly that. 19:22:26 Yes. So I talked about a manager who evaluated me and criticize me. 19:22:34 And, you know, it wasn't that hard for me to say oh yeah 30 years ago when I was a new manager, yes I did the same thing. So, yeah, that took me to empathy, quite readily. 19:23:01 But the, again, the idea of being able to deconstruct what was sort of pushed at me in a neutral way, that was a more challenging activity. Yeah. Yeah, thank you. 19:23:04 That's lovely. 19:23:05 Okay. So when you look at your list someone everybody's just double check with their lists right now. Do you have some things that you don't like to be treated in this way and do you have an observation that you want to work with. 19:23:16 That's my first question, those two things does everybody feel like they have something. 19:23:21 This is a chance to double check like with Michelle this might not be the one she wants to take on this evening so pick something that you do want to take on. 19:23:30 And now my third question is, can you think about a time when you've done this. 19:23:39 Can you find that thing in you. 19:23:50 And if you can jot down a couple of notes about the good reasons why you did it. 19:23:59 And what needs you were trying to meet when you did something like this because that will be a springboard for you into speculating empathy for the other person. 19:24:12 So you may want to make a few notes about that. 19:24:33 And if anybody is stuck or want some help or is confused, let me know. 19:24:44 Could you repeat the two questions for me please. 19:24:48 Find a time when you've done this thing. And if you don't have one that's okay. But if you you know most of us can find a time I can find times that I haven't responded to somebody, or that I've been condescending or that I've explained something to somebody 19:25:01 who know like I can, you know, you may not have something for your particular but find the time that you've done it. And in that moment, see if you can surface what was happening for you whatever you're good reasons why was that a completely normal and 19:25:14 good reason for you to do that. What were you, what need were you trying to meet. When you did that thing. 19:25:28 And then I'd love to hear from two people that I haven't heard from you yet today. 19:25:33 What are you coming up with what is the thing that you're seeing in somebody else and when did you do it and what needs were you trying to meet. 19:25:42 Love to people to share, so that I can hear a little bit about what's in the room. 19:26:06 Sorry, I'm a little confused in my case when I did it can be. 19:26:11 Hold on. It can be is that I thought about the things the other person had the frontal region, actually come out and say, 19:26:23 maybe you could add a few more things in the text to explain I think I'm a little confused. 19:26:39 Well the example that was coming to me was my father in law. 19:26:33 Okay, really disliked him he was very good at just blurting out comments about other people, and really demeaning and little thing. And I'm not going to do that, and would just be nasty about it and I could never figure out quite why the people around 19:26:53 him seem to like him, because I didn't at first until I noticed that. 19:26:59 Oh my gosh, that thing that he's doing. 19:27:02 I'm actually thinking about exactly the same thing but I don't do it because that's not, you know, good boys don't say things like that. 19:27:11 Got it. Okay, So that was it. 19:27:15 But that led me to understanding and better and actually having more empathy for them. 19:27:21 Yes. 19:27:22 Because you could find a place of shared humanity, where you realize that you, there was a part of you that oppresses yourself does not give you permission to say it, because that's what good boys do. 19:27:36 So when he's saying it, you had the social conditioning that he must be a bad boy for saying it. And so it was easy to make him, bad, but the place of compassion was when you realize he's actually expressing things that you would love to have the liberty 19:27:52 of expressing yourself. 19:27:55 I think that's right and also just the pressure of having to conform. 19:28:00 At least in my mind for all those years. And then here's somebody that just free and there's out there. 19:28:06 Oh my gosh, I didn't have to do that. All those years I would rather make him bad yes yes actually face that. 19:28:15 Okay. So a couple things love it thank you for sharing this is super helpful so sometimes what we will find is that we will judge other people for doing the thing that we do not give ourselves permission to do. 19:28:27 Okay. 19:28:30 And what will happen is that we will have made a polarity one side good and one side bad. 19:28:37 And if we're being good, then they must be bad. 19:28:42 And the developmental steps, just to give you a little trajectory is that you need to reclaim the thing that you're seeing as bad as a tool as a capacity as a practice that you get to have. 19:28:56 And then you bring into balance in a non violent way. 19:29:00 I have permission to express myself. I have permission to say my truth I have permission to talk about what is real for me. 19:29:10 While caring about the impact that it has on the other person. 19:29:17 Right. I get to honor my self expression my truth my inner being, I get to be an Express. 19:29:29 And this is the way that we begin neutralizing the disowned parts. 19:29:35 Okay, that's the developmental step is actually embracing the both app. It's not like, oh, obedience complying inhibition now becomes bad and unbridled self expression all becomes Good, that's just switching power game privileging one over the others 19:29:50 we're bringing them back into relationship. 19:29:53 By bringing them into a both. 19:29:57 Yeah. How does that land with you her. 19:30:00 Yeah, I think that makes a lot of sense and that kind of what I was experiencing but it's remarkable to me as I reflect on it now just how difficult that is to do. 19:30:10 In other situations I mean it catches me all the time. Yeah. Who else has that experience that this is difficult to do and it catches you all the time because I know I do. 19:30:18 Yeah, yeah, you're not alone in that, this is, this is why we get together to practice, because it is what to do, by ourselves right. 19:30:28 Alright so this is what you're going to do in small groups, these are lovely examples, you're going to go back into small groups, you're going to share a little bit more about what you're going to do is you're going to go back to the piece of the example 19:30:39 that you want to use. 19:30:41 you want to use. And you're going to help one another, just go around in a, in a, you know, in an order. Here's my situation. 19:30:48 You might even want to be the other person, like, I'm going to be the the condescending post and I'm going to show you what I'm feeling, and then my group is going to empathize with me, and this other person's role to give me the experience of what it 19:31:04 would be like to be empathized with when I'm Michael, or when I'm, you know the, you know, unbridled self expression bad boy who, you know, is being unkind and selfish. 19:31:16 Can someone tell me back what you hear the instructions to be so that I can find out if I'm being clear or not. 19:31:24 Because that seemed a little awkward to me. What are you hearing I want you to do Colleen. 19:31:31 I think what you're saying is that we go back into our small groups and talk about how we have been in that role and get empathy from the others, or it. 19:31:43 Is that right, that would be one practice so yes that is one way of doing it. Um, let me give you my intention. And then you figure out what strategy would work my intention is for you to now go back into small groups and develop empathy for this terrible, 19:31:58 horrible thing that you don't like. 19:32:01 And there's a few ways you can do it you can inhabit the position. You can ask the group, what might somebody be feeling in meeting, if this is what they're doing, help me surface some feelings and needs of what might be going on the drives this. 19:32:14 You might be, there's a lot of ways I think that you can get there but my intention is for you to go and get some discussion time with one another. 19:32:22 That is focused on developing empathy getting to the feelings of the needs, underneath this behavior that we find objectionable. 19:32:32 Is that too, too vague and abstract or do you feel like you can figure it out from there. 19:32:43 Okay, I see enough thumbs up. 19:32:46 Here's my dilemma in this moment I don't want to make activity so structured, that you do one structured thing and it works for half of you but not the other half, and I don't want to make it so vague that you end up in a small group and you're like, 19:32:58 what are we doing, I want there to be enough choice fullness and ability for you to be like here's how I think I would learn best about how to get empathy for this person that's my intention, without making it so structured that you all have to do it 19:33:11 in exactly the same way. So, can we play with that this evening you've got the clear intention of what I want you to do and you go figure it out from there with that feel okay it's everybody. 19:33:22 Okay. Lovely. So let's take a good 15 minutes with a two minute countdown so that's 17 minutes, and then when you come back, we can debrief any places where you're getting stuck. 19:50:18 Okay. 19:50:21 People will be back in. 19:50:23 30 seconds or so. 19:50:28 So just waiting for everybody to come back. 19:50:50 And here they come. 19:50:54 Right. 19:50:57 welcome back welcome back welcome back so I would like to hear what insights, you're having and all where you're getting stuck. 19:51:14 It's not really an insight, it's more of a gratitude, I want to offer to you that that was really fun, really can get together. It stretched my brain in a way that I don't usually do with me so it was really cool. 19:51:28 I'm so glad I am delighted to hear that. yay. 19:51:32 Rachel. 19:51:34 Thank you so I'm going to be very very vulnerable right now and take the advice of my partner and challenge, a thought I was having So, this feels a little scary but also a safe place to do it so I expressed frustration with and disappointment that we 19:51:52 didn't have slides tonight. 19:51:55 And, and also my fear that of not making that comment tonight because I feel your very first I fear you're very frustrated with me and my request. 19:52:09 And so, I also was able to tap into a situation with a student, I had in summer school, who made many requests that just 19:52:19 weren't compatible with the way I wanted to run the classroom, or what I thought the goals of the class where and how much richness came up in myself with him, and that it, especially in part because I have a much greater position of power over him, how 19:52:44 pasta leave, I sometimes reacted to him. 19:52:44 In my defense, he would ask me things like could I go get him breakfast or what was the weather forecast tomorrow. For what was for lunch. And so I'd be like, this is not a diner, it is summer school. 19:52:55 I am not your concierge. 19:52:59 But still, it wasn't very high. 19:53:00 So, there was great. 19:53:03 There was great purpose and being able to see similar feelings in myself and to come to a place of guessing that for you, there's a need for freedom and an improvisation, and the one that really resonated for me was co creation, but this is something 19:53:27 that tonight, the activity was something you want it to be co created. 19:53:33 Lovely. That sounds like really rich and meaningful work. 19:53:37 Yeah. 19:53:38 Yeah. Is there anything you need from me around any of that. 19:53:42 Um, I think I'm wanting to hear that you're not frustrated with me you are you are treated with me but I also think this is an awkward place to do that so it's okay. 19:53:51 I wonder if you're feeling a little vulnerable and just wanting some reassurance perhaps or some like maybe some information from me about how I might be reacting to anything that I heard with any of that be helpful or not. 19:54:05 Yeah. 19:54:10 Okay. 19:54:09 I find you're comfortable I don't know. Yeah, no no no no not at all I find myself, sort of, let me think for a second how I can put this like what would be true about this like, I'm not frustrated. 19:54:25 And there's this like, I know Rachel one slides every week and I also know in myself like I'm not going to have slides every week. And there's a piece of me that goes, I hear it as a request from you and I, you know like, if there was some, like insistence 19:54:44 that there has to be slides and but then I think you and I would take this offline and we would work it out, you know, and some other setting. 19:54:51 But I, I know that there, you know like, I am a trained, educated like I go through this whole thing of like, Oh, I know I know that there are visual learners and blah blah blah. 19:54:59 And I know that I give myself a lot of freedom to go, each week with what I am feeling inspired to do or not do. 19:55:08 And I know that that works for some people and doesn't work for other people. And there's a piece of me that feels at peace with that and I'm also at peace with you, expressing, you know how that lens for you. 19:55:21 And sort of working with everything that may come up around that you know I see it as a really lovely opportunity for some practice and some insight and some, you know, there's an invitation for me. 19:55:33 There's a raised awareness like I think you bring a raised awareness of learning styles and learning needs and preferences that different people have and that's valuable to me it's always helpful to me when people say hey, this would work better for me 19:55:47 this wouldn't put back to this is what I like like I'm super. 19:55:51 I find that valuable. 19:55:53 I don't take any of those things as a demand that I have to now do that one thing all the time to make one person happy. 19:56:02 And I have a lot of trust that if there's something triggering about that for any one person or anything that gets difficult about that that we can work that through and we can find out what's underneath that and there's this piece of me that's like no, 19:56:15 it's, it's also an opportunity for developing some flexibility and some adaptability and some playing with some of those dynamics. So I think that's sort of off the top of my head, just like that. 19:56:29 Right, unexpected that's a little bit of what what feels most alive in this moment how does that land on you, Rachel hearing those pieces anything triggering about anything that I said, No, it's very calming and the reason why I did it was my partner 19:56:41 said I really want to challenge it wanted to push you or encourage you to challenge the idea that if that is frustrated with you, and I had shared with her, that that's a lot of parent child stuff, but if I was joining a graphic novel of my relationship 19:56:58 with my mother. That's not bubble over her head is your very frustrating Rachel. 19:57:04 So, it's really helpful, like, I just shake her need to challenge that idea so it did. 19:57:13 Yeah. Yeah. So let's take a moment and really celebrate a few things, knowing what your preferences on being able to advocate for yourself 19:57:25 becoming aware of things that might be theories and stories that come up about what might be happening for me based very much on what has been happening for other people and what other experiences you've had the resilience and the willingness to talk 19:57:43 about it to examine it to play with it to get present to it, the courage to bring it up the courage to put yourself out there be a little bit vulnerable and tender around it. 19:57:58 The commitment to learning and diving in and delving in the the you finding the part of you that as a teacher you were like, Wow, I've had moments where I was really resistant to someone and I wonder if that's happening for event. 19:58:14 I mean, for me, there is a resistance to having something that I have to do every week, otherwise someone's going to be upset when it shows up in me like that then I just have a lot of my own work to do around that because I won't put myself in those 19:58:24 demanding places. 19:58:27 How's that landing, Rachel, hearing, ya know it all. But first of all, Thank you for the celebration they feel gratitude for that. 19:58:37 And, you know, 19:58:40 of course you're going to have resistance to things that are the way you want to be. So it was just like, oh, if this is just a quarter of how I feel with this kid cope with this kid this summer, then I can just understand assertive tension. 19:58:59 I think that I was able to see like, perhaps this is not frustration it's just attention that comes up with like, this is pulling me away from where I want to be and so I'm pulling back. 19:59:09 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's the lovely insight. I mean the piece I will share with you is, I love doing the slides some weeks and I think that they're super helpful when they help me sort of organize the content and I'm wanting to do something a little 19:59:21 bit more structured and there are other weeks like today I got in from Ireland super late last night. One day, and there was a point where I was like Yep, we're not doing slides tonight we're going to be doing an activity and that's fine and I just give 19:59:33 myself the freedom to do that and I'm grateful for all of you for being adaptable and flexible with that knowing that some nights you really prefer the structure and other nights you you're willing to just flow along with CO creation and you're going 19:59:48 to have preferences, around some of that so it's less about the slides I don't want to seem like I'm the slide, you know, campaigner more than it was this. 20:00:04 This sense of tension at times that I was interpreting in a very specific way but ladies very neatly over some things from my past. So being able to say it out loud, I'm just gonna, I'm going to call out Lori and say thanks for encouraging me worry. 20:00:21 Lovely. Well then that's also just celebrated for a moment the power of community, and the power of calling each other up to our higher potential and encouraging really in the encourage like giving one another heart courage to do the things that are unfamiliar. 20:00:40 So, thank you. 20:00:42 Thank you, you guys dizzy I see your hand is up it's eight o'clock is it quick. Can we really quick, you have to because otherwise I feel like I'm going to pop. 20:00:54 I want to say is I want to echo Marshall Rosenberg, and I hope that you would never do anything unless it's play event. 20:01:02 And I hope that unless it's play you don't do it, because we're not meant to do anything from should. Yes, I love that, I love that, I love that thank you Daisy What a beautiful way to end for this evening.